Guns?

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Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:25 pm

I am considering firearms technology for the world. At the most, it will be a new creation, perhaps only limited to one region that has invented it. Give me some insight and share any knowledge or insight you have about early fire arms!
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Drugs [To be revised]

Post by World of Aserra » Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:57 pm

Every world needs its intoxicants! We're no exception. Drugs can make for some good RP. ;) Most of Adun's intoxicants will be natural at this point; marijuana, opium, peyote, tobacco analogues, among others. Please feel free to suggest any ideas on existing drugs from our world, or make up your own.

Alcohol
The most widespread intoxicant amongst all races of Adun; alcohol. The result of fermentation of fruits or grains, alcohol comes in many forms, but is most easily divided into beers, wines, and spirits. Different races and cultures have unique brews, some highly valued, others considered poor. The end result of it all is a chemical that act as a depressant to the central nervous system, often to pleasurable effect on the imbiber... though it does have many negative side effects.

(Tobacco) (Original name pending)
Common in equatorial and humid regions of Adun, the leaves of the tobacco plant are dried and smoked by some cultures, often through a pipe. The chemical nicotine in its leaves is a mild stimulant. It is not a strong intoxicant, but it is highly addictive.

(Marijuana) (Original name pending)
Another plant which is commonly smoked. It is native to tropical forests and grasslands of Kalesten, growing in Ertia and central Kalesten. It has a sedative effect on most, and even some beneficial effects on those suffering from certain illnesses, such as chronic pain, insomnia, nervous disorders, etc. It is not chemically addictive, but it can be psychologically addicting. The smoking of marijuana can lead to respiratory ailments and can contribute to weight gain, especially if over used.

(Ethylene) (Original name pending)
A naturally occurring gas which is most commonly useful to oracles. Many oracular temples are built on faults where this gas is released. Ethylene can induce visions, and many oracles who do not have an ability for precognition, or who feel the need to see the future will enter a room permeated with the gas and go into a trance, during which they will see visions and explain them in much excitement. Breathing the gas also causes euphoria, but it is not a widely used intoxicant, and the oracles are aware of the risks to their health, so it is a technique that is rarely used.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:28 am

Well i'd advise you to pull of a warhammer for this.

As a Historian with a specialty in military history i'll give you these pointers:

- Early firearms should be UNRELIABLE :P Firearms early on had a very limited range and easily malfunctioned

- Wet climates are dangerous. If the uncanny Cortez and co are examples -> moist climates force one to switch back to lancers, swords etc as moist firearms and wet gunpowder are unusable.

- Those guns break easily.

- To be successful -> applied in large numbers.

- Effective against a lot of armor. However i'd say traditional bows early on will outdo in range and rate of fire.

- Early Cannons are destructive for enemy morale and formations. But not that effective.


-> If you go for a Warhammer approach. Humanity and/or especially the Dwarves might have somewhat more reliable firearms of slightly more exotic design. They could have primitive canons and mortars though taking long to reload can cause havoc if used properly.
Another possibility is a 'steamtank' as a mobile cannon.



Just a few ideas. However it all depends on what kind of period example/firearm you had in mind.
Last edited by Darthvegeta800 on Fri May 01, 2009 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Astrid Starwind » Fri May 01, 2009 4:07 am

I reckon they should be exclusive domain of the dwarves. They alone should have enough skills to master the means to make and use magic driven guns. instead of bullets, they would shoot out fireballs? poison gas? what ever magical ammunition they decide to use but not with a physical bullets mini rockets etc. I am not sure about making Adun's battleground in to semi sci fi style like in warhammer, I thought Adun was a purely magical fantasy world...I would rather like it if it stayed that way then doing something like warhammer style (which I think ..no offence but includes elements that I can not just see it fitting in with the rest of the Adun's setting)... we might have to change a lot of other things especially scientific decelopment in nations.
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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Fri May 01, 2009 9:38 am

No, I'd rather it be a human based technology. The "dwarves" of this world are earth elementalists, after all. If they have any need for projectiles, they would do it with bare hands. :P
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Fri May 01, 2009 12:36 pm

In Warhammer Fantasy both men and Dwarves have their own brand of firearms. The Empire has a steamtank, a cannon, a mortar and some musketeers available.
Dwarves however are infamous for the firepower they can lie down as they have far more advanced and intricately designed kinds of artillery and firearms.


However if you want to go for a world where humans are the techies and the other races more magically inclined... i'd agree and say split it up and give mankind late Medieval gunpowder firearms and make the Dwarves masters of runecraft, mining, metallurgy, stonecraft and Earth elementalism.
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Musical Instruments [To be revised]

Post by World of Aserra » Sun May 17, 2009 9:29 pm

From the dawn of time, humans and other races have learned to create interesting and beautiful sounds on various objects, thus leading to the invention of numerous musical instruments. Instruments can mostly be broken up into either stringed, percussion, or wind with many categories therein.

Stringed instruments are composed of a series of strings stretched taut across a usually wooden instrument, often hollow within to create a richer, deeper sound. The thickness and tightness of the strings produce various tones which can be picked by finger or by other means, often varying the tone by depressing the chords with the fingers. Guitars, lutes, violins/fiddles, cellos, shamisen, banjos, and other instruments fit this category.

Percussion instruments are objects which must be struck to produce sound, and can cover a rather broad range of instruments and has it's own categories within. Drums, xylophones, cymbals, and bells are some of the most well-known forms of percussion, but pianos and similar instruments can also be considered percussion of the "cordophone" persuasion. Percussion is one of the oldest form of instrument.

Wind instruments are often a tube constructed with a reed within to create a resonating tune when blown into. Often by manipulating holes in the instrument while it is blown into, sound is produced. The length and shape of the instrument determine the sort of sound it produces. Flutes, panpipes, oboes, and horn are wind instruments. Considering the medieval level of development in Adun, most instruments will be woodwind rather than metal, and more complicated metal modern instruments such as saxophones and clarinets will not exist yet.

A list of instruments will be included later. Feel free to make suggestions for existing or made up instruments.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Alera Tai'var » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:00 am

I think I agree with Jess on this one. It makes more sense to me to see this in the hands of humans. They tend to be the ones seeking to make many the upper hand for themselves and artificial methods are generally the hallmark of humanity.

I think guns should be a rare occurence, but a definitely plausible one. To me, it sounds like it might be closer to Final Fantasy than Warhammer. I personally always struggled with making my favorite alchemist characters without the ability to make a crude gun. I think its a good thing to make it there. My idea of a gun wielding character in an rpg like this is a guy with six loaded pistols on the front of his chest and a rifle for range (and if he wanted it to be worth anything, he'd probably have invested in enchanting bullets and gun barrels for accuracy).
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:26 am

Problem of course is... if it's too powerful/effective you'd just hand it to a weak char and he'd just shoot anything around.
Guns are easily abused. You could have a char who is a nitwit but put everything in gladiatorial combat and pain tolerance and is a bodyguard char but he'd be completely ineffectual due to being shot on the spot.

Unless you of course go very 'fantasy' and people are unusually resistance and swordfighters have a chance of slamming away bullets. :p
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Re: Guns?

Post by Alera Tai'var » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:38 am

Well, of course guns are very effective, but the thing to point out is that I don't think anyone expects these guns to work like a 9mm. Old guns are single shot and have the accuracy of a cannon in their own size (that is to say, not much at all). If you have one gun, be it rifle or pistol, you have one shot before that swordsman is upon you. And even then, its partly up to luck, as these bullets are perfectly capable of straying.

If you have to reload, you are screwed. That's why, up until about World War I (I'm pretty sure they still had them then, but I don't know how much longer after), guns still had bayonets. That way, after you get your shot, you still have a chance to survive the charging onslaught, or at least wound someone. But if you want to compete bayonet vs sword, there isn't much contest in terms of stopping power, maneuverability, or defense. The bayonet is a paltry defense in the presence of a man who's focus was on close combat and who's blade is three times the length.

I think its fair.
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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:54 am

Chris has the right idea here. Guns will have serious drawbacks, and they will be single shot. A bullet may fly further than an arrow and pack more of a punch, but at least all an archer has to do to reload is draw and nock another arrow.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:08 am

Than it's good if they'll be at the level of say Pre Napoleon or something.
Guns were heavily unreliable up until then. And at their most effective when used en masse. It was actually possible to shoot at close range with a pistol and still hit nothing. Of course a hero char would have a more effective one than those or he'd end up in the opposite camp of being ineffectualy. As for WWI i think you're right they still had them. Used mostly at close range during trench assaults. Though the rifles by then were quite good and accurate.

So what style will it be. 16th-17th century types of weapons? 18th century like? Or more modern rifles à la 19th-early 20th century?
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Re: Guns?

Post by Astrid Starwind » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:38 am

Though I am not sure of the actual idea of using a gun altogether. I know this world was suppose to be a custom made world but I just detest guns altogether if they can not be an effective weapon in a world where its being created from ground up, well what is the use then?

Even though there might be a continent wide war between countries, its like holding chunky mini canon. Use of battle magic is probably faster then reloading one of these and shooting them again. That is why I was suggesting infusion of magic into crafting these. That is the only way the guns can be effective if they are going to do any sort effective damage in battlefield. And not many can afford these so effectively it will be a specialised military item.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:44 am

I disagree. Plenty of fantasy settings prove the such tech can compete with magic. They have their own advantages.

The main question is... would it be good to add it to the setting? Would it be a positive addition? Or would it be better for the atmosphere to follow a more classic Medieval orientated approach?
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Re: Guns?

Post by Alera Tai'var » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:08 pm

If anyone has learned anything about me and my preferences around fantasy worlds, its that "classic" is not a word I would want to describe my rpg as. I am constantly looking for originality in a genre that I often don't feel much hope for. Guns won't sate that desire, but it certainly opens up new possibilitites.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:11 pm

Well i don't really care either way. I'm fan of different fantasy settings. From Classic D and D to Warhammer Fantasy to Anima: Beyond Fantasy.
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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:39 pm

Alera Tai'var wrote:If anyone has learned anything about me and my preferences around fantasy worlds, its that "classic" is not a word I would want to describe my rpg as. I am constantly looking for originality in a genre that I often don't feel much hope for. Guns won't sate that desire, but it certainly opens up new possibilitites.
I hope it doesn't end up being too classic. D: I have some ideas for the future though! This could end up to be a world where we RP 2 or 3 different time periods.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Astrid Starwind » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:01 pm

Right now I think guns won't be important as far as other skills human race has are not advanced enough yet. In the future it might be accurate enough that you don't need much magic to use it as an effective weapon. Until humans advance more in other skills such as metal smithing for weapons and alchemy, we might well as use magic infused weapons.
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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:30 pm

Magic still isn't a commodity to be tossed around lightly. When a weapon is enchanted, the enchanter literally pours their soul into it. It is not something they're going to do left and right, regardless of pay.

If a war were to break out with whichever nation has forged guns, and they need to arm their soldiers, they are sure as hell not going to be loading them up with magically enchanted weapons. Perhaps the highest commanding officers could be lucky enough to get themselves such a prize, but the footmen are going to be relying on good ol' gunpowder and bullets.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Mana Apparatus » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:08 am

Mecha. When ever someone brings up the gun argument in RPGs and says stuff like "advanced" I go around and say Mecha. Then I bring up OOPArt's. Then we all have fun. Guns are actually pretty simplistic in design, even today's guns. You want to look at complicated machinery? Analog watches, clocks. take a look at a motherboard. These are all far more advanced than guns. At least, in my opinion.
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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:11 am

Guns started out pretty simple though, shove a ball down a shaft with some gun powder, then add some fire.

That sounds painfully dirty.

Ok, I'm going to bed now.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:14 am

Well i remain sceptic. If you look at say Late Middle Ages, Early New Age, guns were barely worth it. (in fact if there are guns, there should be primitive canons too as that makes more sense) But if you go too far in type, you end up with an unbalancing factor.
So it should all be very well-defined.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Astrid Starwind » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:58 am

actually instead of guns..what about canons?

I know guns are pretty simple in design but how you make it makes all the difference. If the guns were that easy to make, everyone would have guns. How do I know? my job entails that I know how to use particular types of gun and be proficient in it.

I think foot soldiers should have more endurable weapons, which we already use (such as sword,helberds etc.) in Adun and let the superiors carry the guns as emergency. If we are going to do the sort of the guns before world war 1. Because if these guns are heavy and take sometime for it to be prepared again, its useless to a foot soldier. 400 years or so ago when guns were being used in battles for the first time, they were so heavy they had to have a stick to support them so that they can at least go some distance. Sometime down the line in 18th century hunting ones were pretty heavy. Even today they weigh at least minimum of 5~6 kg (average models).We can also have a special small squad who uses guns mainly with swords as emergency.

That way they have knights and commanders, specialised squads and foot soldiers. When I think about it...this three main types has been the same for our own history. It just makes sense why should all the foot soldiers carry their own gun? its costly, effective few times, takes too long to reignite to shoot again when somebody else could come in and stab you if somebody else is not protecting you. So it should be the commanders who carry these.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:31 am

I like this as historically canons were used in numbers before guns.
And they were rather unreliable yet had an impact on the battle. (damage to morale / breaking formations over kill counts)
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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:49 am

Astrid Starwind wrote:That way they have knights and commanders, specialised squads and foot soldiers. When I think about it...this three main types has been the same for our own history. It just makes sense why should all the foot soldiers carry their own gun? its costly, effective few times, takes too long to reignite to shoot again when somebody else could come in and stab you if somebody else is not protecting you. So it should be the commanders who carry these.
Simple, as the enemy advances, fire a volley, take down their numbers, then charge into melee battle.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:52 am

In that case you'd be working with bajonets. Bowmen and riflemen after all will have a tendency to be armed in such a manner. Though a longsword or dagger is possible.
I still think firearms should be kept limited in nr. Perhaps a specialized regiment or so. Same with canons. A few.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Mana Apparatus » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:00 am

to the bayonets I can only say this.

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Re: Guns?

Post by J. M. Vincent » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:14 am

LULZ.

Anyway, it's a very new technology. I'm not sure which nation will be the innovators, or if it'll even be a Kalesten nation at this point. Most armies and individuals will be relying on bows/crossbows, catapults, ballistas, and other ranged weapons. Canons will most likely be the first weapon to use combustive force, and perhaps some hand canons as well.

As for magic, there aren't going to be human nations waging war with a lot of magic. They may have some battle mages here and there, maybe officers and knights will be lucky enough to have an enchanted weapon, but most of the army will likely be using either bows for range, pole arms, and swords.
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Re: Guns?

Post by Darthvegeta800 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:06 pm

While we're at it... Warhammer 40K Chainswords?
:lol:
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Re: Guns?

Post by Astrid Starwind » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:10 am

not sure what chainswords are...anything that needs very highly advanced weapon smithing almost out of question for humans. Maybe dark elves? I am pretty sure they have invented some destructive weapons that are much finer then humans and other races.

Maybe all these guns etc could be an option in any plots that are played in the distant future. Where human civilisations have become advanced and non human involved magical wars has been fought between different races.
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